Into the Fire

For those of you who’ve always wanted to know more about the sought after primo literary agent, Chip MacGregor, here he is in the raw, er, wait, in the flesh, well, no, here he is, unedited.

 

Questions for Chip MacGregor

 

1.Chip, you’ve taken the time to answer nearly every question that could be asked about the publishing industry, about writing, and about the roles of literary agents on your blog, in interviews, and in guest posts/articles around the web. No doubt you see many recurring questions. If you could shrink your recommendations to three main objectives for writers desiring publication, what would they be?

 

First, learn to write. The vast majority of the projects we turn down are rejected simply because the author isn't good enough for publication. You can't be in a hurry. You can't assume because you've got a good story, that's enough. I can sing well in church, but that doesn't mean I can expect people to plunk down $18.99 to buy a CD of me singing. There's a big difference between somebody with a story and somebody who has spent the time learning how to best tell it. But there are a million resources out there for writers — classes, conferences, critique groups, writing websites, books, training. So learn to write before you decide you need to be published.

 

Second, think about salability. You've got to match that great writing with a great idea — something people will want to purchase. You've got to think about the story appeal, or the need for this idea in the marketplace. 

 

Third, work on your platform. Yeah, I hate saying that — I'd prefer to just tell people to become good writers, and that's all you need. But the fact is, having a healthy platform will make it easier for a writer to get published. How many people do you reach through your words? Do you write in a local newspaper? Have a column? Write articles on the web? Create pieces for an ezine? Have a popular blog? Do a lot of media? Speak to crowds of people? Have strong ties to groups? Whatever your connection points are to potential readers, being able to reveal them to a publisher has become an important part of the publishing process. You may not like it, but it's real — so invest some time on your platform. 

 

2.It goes without saying that you take on clients because you love their writing, but it certainly isn’t the only factor. Have you turned down potential clients because of no platform or poor marketing plans in spite of loving their stories and voices?

 

Sure… but I'm still a sucker for great voice. The fact is, having a great writing voice is rare enough that I'll pay attention to it even if the writer has NO platform.

 

 

3.You’ve been known to be a bit “caustic” in your treatment of different topics and wannabe writers. A master of sarcasm and wit, you also occasionally allow your blog readers to see your “sensitive” side. Your clients rave about what a nice guy you are—plus praising your exceptional business skills. So who is the real Chip MacGregor?

 

People often want to talk about this. I have the reputation of being "The Simon Cowell of Christian Publishing," and it makes some people (especially new writers) afraid to talk with me. But I don't ever set out to be mean. I just have a very low bullshit factor. And I'm one of those people who believes Christians tend to focus on "niceness" so much that they sometimes become unrealistic. I've seen excruciatingly bad proposals at conferences, and watched nice Christian writers say, "Well, this certainly has some good aspects to it." No it doesn't! It's awful, and we should just tell the author it's awful rather than offer him false hope that his crappy idea is going to improve by tweaking a few words here and there. There is a balance between "being polite" and "telling the truth." I try to tell the truth, and I always try to do so politely (at least in person). I suppose I have failed at times, but for the most part I try to be polite when telling an author who has tried hard that "this isn't good enough." 

 

Where I get into trouble is usually in print (I'm much bigger in print — much more caustic, I suppose, than in real life). But again, that's usually done with a sense of humor, as a way to entertain readers. I've got no desire to bore anyone — I'm trying to educate and entertain. I tend toward humor. And let's face facts: Evangelical Christians in America today are seriously humor-impaired. Many act like poking fun of things is wrong. They want to pretend that, by being nice, they'll never hurt anyone's feelings. (This is usually done under the guise of "let's be respectful to everyone.") I think that's a mask — a way of slapping a happy face over reality in hopes of making us all feel better about ourselves, and it's crap. If somebody does something bad in private, I'll tell them in private (and I think you'll find the huge majority of writers will say I treated them with respect in private). But when somebody sends around their bad book idea, or makes a bold statement that is clueless, or offers up a terrible book, I don't lose any sleep about being honest with them. And it generally comes out as poking fun, rather than a direct slap in the face.

 

An example: Recently a guy went onto a very popular Christian fiction site to bemoan the terrible state of Christian fiction and predict its death. Well, I'm sorry, but that's just stupid, and someone needed to say, "This is stupid. Your facts are wrong — Christian fiction has been the fastest-growing segment of all publishing over the last ten years, and there are great Christian novels being written, and last year we sold more Christian fiction than ever before, so just shut up, will you?" Frankly, more people should have said that, but they were afraid because they fear they don't have the gravitas. I don't know that I really have a bit of authority in this industry, but I know what I'm doing, and I have the courage of my convictions, so I said it and didn't lose a bit of sleep over having said it. 

 

Poking fun at things (especially the dumb things that happen in this world) is bound to tick people off. Humor always has the risk of offending someone. A couple years ago, when a former exec with CBA stood next to me and told me how well the convention was doing, EVEN THOUGH WE WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF A BIG EMPTY BOOTH SPACE… well, I had to make fun of that. It was patently obvious the convention was in trouble. They didn't like that — but hey, in retrospect everyone has to admit the conversation was ill-timed. Recently I revealed an over-the-top response I received from a wannabe writer to a simple rejection I sent. Instead of just telling me I'm stoopid for having not seen her brilliance, she sent this long, florid note calling me names and trying to put me in my place for having rejected her work. I posted it on my blog (something I've never done before) because it was just funny and over the top. I didn't reveal her identity or note the title of her work — but I figured if she was going to be so bold as to write some purple prose, I'd share it, anonymously, with my readers. I found her behavior silly, and pointed it out. And, yes, I think that's fine. But the fact is I'd never purposefully try to put down a wannabe writer just for trying hard. We're all trying hard. And we all make mistakes — myself included, and I suppose I've poked fun at myself more than anyone. But it would be mean to scold someone just for trying and trying badly, and though you may not believe it, I'm never trying to be mean. I'm trying to be honest. 

 

When the prophet Elijah challenged the priests of Baal to a contest, he asked them to call on their gods to rain fire down on the altar. When they tried and failed, Elijah comes out and says, "You should try yelling louder. Maybe your god is asleep. Maybe he went next door and is out." In other words, he poked fun at these chumps for being stupid. Elijah is my hero. 

 

 

4.Do you have three or four publishers with whom you prefer to do business? If so, why?

 

Yes. Because they (1) are easy to work with, (2) listen to other ideas, (3) don't see everything as a win/lose negotiation, (4) are willing to consider the author's perspective, (5) work hard on subrights, and (6) keep us informed during the process. 

 

 

5.Do you have a favorite genre for personal reading?

 

Yes — history. I love reading history, and that's led recently to a love of narrative nonfiction. I enjoy learning things as I read. I also like literary fiction and political thrillers for their ability to help me see other perspectives, and for the pure escape value. 

 

 

6.Do you read equally from both ABA and CBA?

 

I read both CBA and general market books, but not "equally." When reading for pleasure, I tend to read much more in the general market. When reading for work, I guess I tend to read more CBA books. 

 

 

7.Fiction or non-fiction preferences or both equally?

 

For pleasure? More nonfiction, without a doubt. But I'm one of those readers who really enjoys both fiction and nonfiction. 

 

 

8.Has becoming a grandfather added any new perspectives to your life?

 

Um… yes. It makes me realize I'm getting older. I started my first job in publishing when I was 19, and for years I was always the youngest guy in the room (the youngest reporter, the youngest managing editor, the youngest whatever). I'm no longer the youngest anything. Seeing Maelie, my granddaughter, reminds me that life is moving on, that I'll be replaced. My siblings and I are now the oldest generation in our family still living — all of our aunts, uncles, parents are gone. So there's the sense of "I want to make sure and leave a positive legacy for people." I've always had a keen interest in mentoring, which is why I started my blog to begin with. The notion of generativity has always been strong with me. Not so much for "being remembered," as for "helping to foster the next generation." 

 

 

9.How many years have you been married to your lovely wife? What three words would she use to describe you?

 

I've been married 28 years. She would describe me as hard-working, funny, and… I don't know what the third word would be. You'll have to ask her. I'm holding out for "sexy," though my guess is she'd pick something else. 

 

 

10.What, if anything, would you change in Christian publishing?

 

I would've had Ted Dekker say, "Yes, Chip, let's work together." 

 

 

11.What is your procedure for deciding on a potential client?

 

I throw the Urim and Thummin, and the spirits make it clear to me who I should represent. 

 

Kidding. I read the proposal. If I like it, I start a dialogue with the author. If I feel comfortable with them, I tell them about the agency. I prefer to represent people who are going to be friends (really — that's not just marketing talk), so I like to get a feel for whether or not we'll wind up as long-term friends. I try to answer their questions. I try to help improve the proposal. Usually it becomes clear to both of us that we should be working together. It's not so much an "I pick them" or "they pick me," but we have generally decided, together, that we'd be a fit. That's how the normal course of things have gone. 

 

 

12.Does it “feel” like there are more writers than ever?

 

Well… no, not really. But I've been around writers my whole life. I always knew storytellers. I think writers just found it harder to gather in the past. There are certainly more opportunities for writers to gather than there used to be — and that's a good thing. I actually enjoy conferences, and the chance to see people and rub shoulders with others in the industry. It used to be much harder to connect with other writers, except perhaps through universities or the occasional writers group. 

 

There are more people now than ever, and we're much more enamored with celebrity than we used to be, so perhaps that's why it feels like suddenly everyone is writer. But… they're not all writers. If you spend all your time on the ACFW Loop or the Writers View, and your social times are the Blue Ridge Conference and Write-to-Publish, or if all the people on your Gmail account are writers, then sure — it feels like the world is made of writers. But if you break away from that, and go talk to people at the local restaurant, or at church, or at the Elks club, or on the sidelines of the soccer game, you'll find none of them are writers. 

 

 

13.Your client list is full. What might tempt you to take on yet another client?

 

Well, I took on a couple clients recently because I liked the writer and loved the writing. Vicki HInze started talking to me, she had left her previous agent, I already knew her writing, and we got along famously. So now I represent her. Mike Hingson came to me with a fabulous story — he is blind, was in the World Trade Center on 9/11, and his guide dog led him down 78 flights of stairs to safety. Mike's a good guy, we started talking, I immediately saw the potential in his story, and… we're doing the book with Thomas Nelson. So I'm tempted by great ideas and great writing. 

 

 

14.Your opinion of custom publishing outfits such as WinePress? And POD publishing?

 

Publishing is changing, and the advent of micro-publishers and self-publishing is the next step in the industry. We've all seen musicians create their own CD's and find an audience successfully, so I think that can be done with books. That said, it's hard work. Talent is necessary. And with the "everyone can do it" mentality, that means there is a ton of lousy music being produce. So even great music can get overlooked. Still, I spent some time with Todd Rundgren earlier this year — he's an influential musician and arranger who had some commercial hits in past years (remember "Hello It's Me"?), and had a bit of a renaissance when "That 70's Show" showcased his music. He writes, plays, records, and produces his own album every year. He's got the reputation and following to make it work. I could easily see a bestselling author like Stephen King or Janet Evanovich do that. But those are the easy one — they've got a readership already, and can get some major marketing. What I'm waiting for is the unknown author who has a big publishing hit, and the small companies who will rise up to become successful. It's already happening, of course. THE SHACK, for all its failings as a book, hit a nerve and sold a million copies. We'll see others like that in the near future. The upside is that it's the new wave of publishing. The downside is it will mean we can all expect to see huge piles of terrible books. 

 

Ray Hymen, a longtime professor at the University of Oregon, created a theory to help people understand the influence of the web on information. In his view, we used to look to newspapers for truth. In retrospect, we all knew there was some truth in papers, though there was also a big mound of, um, crud. Then we all started watching the TV news, which made the overall pile of information bigger — but not necessarily made the truth bigger. (That's why you can have 200 channels on your TV and still find nothing to watch.) Now, with the internet, the sheer volume of information is gargantuan — but you've got to dig through it to find the truth, since it seems like the internet has given voice to every nutjob and conspiracy theorist and radical religious headcase who knows how to find the right keys on his laptop. Self-publishing, of both nonfiction and fiction, is going to have the same effect. There will be more titles than ever — and you'll still have a hard time finding a good book. 

 

I should say my LEAST favorite part of self-publishing is that it's creating "experts" out of doofuses. The people who want to go on and proclaim their huge success, because they now have "a published book," which they can leave on their countertop in hopes someone will come over and they can say, "Set your cup and saucer right here — I'll just move MY BOOK!" I've seen an explosion of bad advice on the writing loops. People who mistake their inexperience for experience, and thus offer terrible advice to young writers. And the arrogance that goes with people publishing their own titles — well, I could go on, but that's the part that doesn't excite me. 

 

 

15.You’ve expanded your agency to include two ladies, Sandra Bishop and Amanda Luedeke. Expansion creates more business opportunities for MacGregor Literary. How did you arrive at the decision to expand and on these two particular people?

 

Sandra Bishop was my assistant for a year and a half. She has a unique set of skills, having made her living as a freelance writer and editor for 15 years. After she'd been helping me for a while, she was ready to slide into the role of agent — and she's done a great job. Her authors love her, and she's helped them move forward in their careers. 

 

Amanda then became my assistant for a year and a half. Same story — she makes her living as a writer, and has for the past few years (ever since she graduated from the Professional Writing Program at Taylor University four years ago). Amanda assisted me, learned the business, and now is starting to agent. She's got some interests in areas I don't currently represent (speculative fiction and YA books, for example), so she gives us some new avenues for growth. Both Sandra and Amanda have good word skills, and both can put up with me, which may make them eligible for sainthood. 

 

One of the obvious things we all have in common: Unlike most agencies, all three of us have made our living at writing. So I think we bring a writer's perspective to our agency — something very rare in this industry. They're both great, and I believe in them, and they're both going to be successful at this. 

 

 

16.You recently moved to Seaside, Oregon. A beautiful tourist town, is there a particular reason you chose Seaside?

 

We actually live in Manzanita, about a half-hour south of Seaside. Most people find it odd, that a literary agent can make a living and not be in New York. But the bulk of the work is done by phone and email these days, and I get to the publishers a few times each year. We wanted someplace close to the ocean, that was quiet and pretty. I'll admit the northern Oregon coast is gray and wet — too dreary for most. But we're both native Oregonians, so we found something we liked. 

 

 

17.You might never get asked the question(s) you really want to answer. If there’s something you really want writers or readers to know, please take the opportunity to do that here.

  

I glow in the dark. 

 

Okay, not really. 

 

I once ate a slug. 

 

That's actually true, though I don't know why I'd want you to know it. 

 

Um… I can laugh at just about anything, and I think we all need to laugh more. 

 

I'm not nearly as scary as I come across in print. 

 

How'm I doing?

 

Chip MacGregor

MacGregor Literary

 

http://chipmacgregor.typepad.com/main/

 

Sounds like Chip’s doin’ just fine, doesn’t it?

 

Father, you know Chip’s heart and soul. You know what touches, angers, and keeps him laughing. You designed him. I ask your continued blessing on his life. I ask that you provide those things that make what he does even more meaningful and insightful for him. Encourage him as only you can do. In the Name of Jesus, Amen.