Into the Fire

Passionate thoughts about the world of writing and the Power of God

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Passionate: right or wrong. Writes love stories with a passion. Raw Romantic Redemptive

I wonder about . . .

July 23, 2012

. . . men who write women characters who are, well, "shrews" would be the polite word for them. Vince Flynn gave the hero-to-die-for Mitch Rapp a love interest, who became his wife, who pouted, pranced, pompously defied, and performed the shrewish wife to perfection. I hated her. And I was not alone. Kirk Outerbridge did the same with the wife of his hero Rick Macey. I hated her as well.

And frankly, they're not entertaining characters. They're annoying, and I fail to understand how such noteworthy male characters with deep emotions, which they must squelch most of the time in their lines of work, can fall for these loudmouthed, demanding, boorish females. Granted, they no doubt need strong women to keep them balanced since they're used to calling the shots, but these women make the roles of dominating men their occupations. And these male characters who have withstood bullets, knives, bombs, terrorists, and all matter of evil allow these women to trample their manhood with ugly behavior and a total lack of understanding even when they've personally experienced the protection and terrifying demands of their husbands' work. For supposedly being smart ladies, these females show no regard for the sensitive nature of their husbands' occupations and manage to make everything all about themselves. Frankly, they're despicable characters.

So what's up with that? Guys?

God, you've given women equal value in your heart, but you've also given men and woman varied roles. Our sin natures always make for easy conflict as we contest our differences. Forgive us all for usurping power we're not supposed to hold. And help us to always honor you in all things. In the Name of Jesus, Amen.

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18 responses to “I wonder about . . .”

Normandie Fischer

July 24, 2012

Good question, Nicole. I hope you get some feedback from men here.
My son told me recently that in my generation the women’s movement had done terrible things to the self-esteem of women, who now had not only to think of fulfilling the role of mother and wife, but also to strive to compete with men in a man’s world. I was so proud of him when he told me that the greatest role, the most important role, was that of nurturer and teacher. Sigh. Love that young man.

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BK Jackson

July 24, 2012

I don’t know that that’s confined to men writing women characters. Granted, I’m am outlier because I have always preferred male-character dominated fiction (from growing up watching/reading westerns). But one of the reasons I don’t enjoy a lot of fiction is because women writers overkill the female leads. They’re trying so hard to make them strong and independent that it makes you roll your eyes when you read it. I don’t know that the stuff I’ve read has the female trying to dominate the male, but it is usually one step removed from that.
Most women don’t seem to be comfortable with the concept that men and women have different roles, though God sees them equally. I’m not saying women can’t be detectives, firefighters, or anything else–but when the freedom and independence show through as being forced in the fiction, it just doesn’t ring true.

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

N, what a great son. I hope I do too. I know a couple of men(who also write) had no good feelings for either of these women in the particular examples I gave.
I love male dominated stories, Brenda, and you know what a romantic I am. And I agree about the women being tough “guys”. Many of them don’t ring true because usually we’re allowed glimpses of their female-ness in their private thoughts, emotions.
Just because women are professionals in the tougher occupations – and I think we all applaud those callings – doesn’t necessitate them being overbearing shrews as these two professional characters demonstrated. It’s no fun to read about a rah-rah! hero with a despicable wife. (In the Mitch Rapp stories, his wife was a reporter/journalist [ugh], and in the Macey story, his wife was the head of a big corporation.)

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Brenda Anderson

July 24, 2012

Oh Normandie, your son is a true keeper!
Brenda J – I’m with you on enjoying male-driven fiction, and I agree that many female protags are too strong, too independent. To counter that, I wrote a women’s fiction novel where “strength” & “control” are my female lead’s weaknesses. 😉
Nicole – I’m with you regarding Mitch Rapp’s wife. I never did get that relationship, other than her being his opposite, a natural tension creator.

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

Too much tension for my satisfaction. Why couldn’t she realize what she had? A total whiner.
Anyway, Bren, you might enjoy my post tomorrow.
And good idea with your women’s fiction novel. Controlling women battle their own demons. I used to be way moreso than I am now.

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Robert Liparulo

July 24, 2012

One of those things that make you go, “Hmmmm.” Maybe the women in these author’s lives are shrews; it’s what they know of women. Maybe they’re after the irony of tough, effective men “put in their place” by the women they love. Then again, it could be the writer’s constant pursuit of tension–having a woman make life easier feels boring to them (in which case, all the Beth and Jagger scenes would probably feel boring to them; Beth is Jagger’s bright spot in a dark world).
In “Deadfall” and “Deadlock,” I wanted to make Laura tough and independent, but not shrewish. I guess the best judges of whether I succeeded would be women.
Of course, it’s a two-way street: I’ve read stories by women whose male characters are either mindless beefcakes or rude brutes.

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

Thanks for stopping by, Robert. Great examples and thoughts. Gotta admit I’ve wondered if their wives were of that “attitude” in which case I could possibly understand their characterizations. I also wonder if this is how they perceive “strong” women. Anyway, I shed no tears when they’re eliminated. : /
Laura was a great character, and Beth was admirable. Both appealing as strong – but understated – women. Loved them both.
And some women have a knack for demeaning men (intentionally or not) in their fiction in which case I tend to drop them from my reading list. I approve contrasts, but it’s evident when women have a “thing” against men.

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Jessica Thomas

July 24, 2012

Yes! That was my main problem with ‘Eternity Falls’. (I assume his love interest in that one is who he eventually marries.) I didn’t like her at all, and I didn’t buy that he was falling in love with her. It seemed forced because there wasn’t much to love about her, and I was especially confused because there seemed to be hints that Macey was going to be portrayed as the Christian ‘hero’. Seemed like he would have been turned off by the woman’s behavior, then.

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

Yup, Jess. Married that woman who doesn’t share his faith and is more fully developed in The Tenth Crusader. She’s really really a shrew (with a capital b). And he’s so in love with her just like Mitch Rapp was with his disgusting wife.

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Tim George

July 24, 2012

If I couldn’t handle shrewish, iron-pants, dominating women in fiction I would have quit watching television dramas a long time ago. You know I liked both Eternity Falls and The Tenth Crusader but there was something in me that wished Macey would turn her over his knee like Gary Cooper in one of the Westerns and wear her butt out. Before anyone goes ballistic on me, I said “wished”. Relationships are strange things and there truly is no accounting for why some people are attracted to each other.

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

Ha! Love that Gary Cooper analogy. I’m totally with you there, my friend!
They are indeed strange, Tim, and these two guys need better women. (See tomorrow’s post. 😉 )

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Jason Joyner

July 24, 2012

I had the same problem with the woman in Eternity Falls. Enjoyed the book, but the protagonist falls for her? Really?
In full confession mode, Nicole read my earliest draft of my WIP, letting me know that my female protagonist was not likeable. I didn’t really know how to take that at the time, but after I had further confirmation, I had to take another look and agree with them all (sorry Nicole!).
I was trying to make her intelligent, yet impulsive and impatient. I saw her as a type A personality, which I am not. Instead of making her outgoing, I made her haughty and immature.
I’ve gone back to my earlier chapters and reworked scenes to show her compassion and softener her up. Critique I’ve had since then suggests I’m on the right track.
I would suggest it is potentially hard for guys to write a strong female that appeals to women. What we see as strong can be offputting in a real woman.
So thanks Nicole, for calling it out long ago. It put me on the right track – even if I struggled with the critique at the time (being honest – but I wouldn’t have fixed it without that advice).

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

You’re so kind, Jason. Honestly, the Type A female can be a wench, but if we’re going to use her for our heroine, then we need to find the best part of her to give her some appeal. You’ve revamped yours in the definite right direction, and I’m very sorry if I hurt your feelings, Jason.
“I would suggest it is potentially hard for guys to write a strong female that appeals to women. What we see as strong can be offputting in a real woman.”
Excellent point, Jason. I think the struggle must be in giving them any inherent kindness and the sense that it isn’t all about them.

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Jason Joyner

July 24, 2012

Don’t worry, you didn’t hurt my feelings. What’s the line from the movie w/Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson? “You can’t handle the truth.” At the time I didn’t know how to take it. It didn’t hurt, but I was in a little denial. I’ve learned a lot since then, and you’ve always been a big supporter, so no worries!
I think the opposite problem happens to women writers. Their male characters are too sensitive or too wimpy for guys, or they’re like Robert’s examples. It’s a fine line for both sexes.

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Nicole

July 24, 2012

I agree, Jason. A fine line indeed.
I just started a novel where the male protagonist is right off the bat unlikable. Immediately. Written by a man. So it’s like the author knows this guy, perhaps even IS this guy at heart. But the author is so adept at hitting the right spots in him that we want to keep going because we know he can’t remain like this, even though it all rings true. And the hint of that deep spot in him that is truly valuable hangs unidentifiably like a ghost in the shadows. I’ll be reviewing it when I’m finished, but I expect a truly good book.

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BK Jackson

July 24, 2012

Jason, I agree with you on the problems women have writing male characters. And inaccuracies creep into the story in even the slighest of ways. I have a story set in 19th century AZ with a military doctor who is treating a soldier and I write him as taking a handkerchief and wiping off his hands.
The feedback I got was–he wouldn’t take time to grab a handkerchief and wipe off his hands, he’d just slap them over his pants. But it was good feedback for me to be mindful of even the smallest details when writing men vs. women in my stories.

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dayle

July 26, 2012

Ditto R.L.’s comments. My thoughts exactly.

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Nicole

July 26, 2012

Yeah. Thanks, Dayle.

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